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Topic for Debate
 
Is a building a personal expression?
A building is not a personal expression, but rather, it is a product of reaction between the various needs and the built, cultural, and social context. With strong knowldge, with the available technology, These words are so ideal and go towards the utopian. But i can't tell you what i want to say without these words. In fact the recent architectural product tends to be a personal expression for the architect and his culture without any respecting to the basics of contextual logic. Each building has its own identity, its own character producing a crumbled urban composition.
Shady Youssef
Responses
 
Is a building a personal expression?
" Yes, I think a building can be a personal expression.According to me architecture evolves from logical art and beautiful and inspired engineering.A true art expression, never demands an explaination, but we cannot defend ambigious work as a piece of art & pure engineering can become monotonous and it can be boaring.Architecture strikes perfect balance between the real-unreal, visible-unvisible, fact-assumption, art-engineering etc.. I agree to the fact that today architecture is more individual and non contextual that ever before.Each creator wants to dominate his/her peice of work over others(with all my respect to some exceptions).But how long can we think conventional, its high time we realise the truth and existing trends/patters/behavior of the society. We should make an attempt to mould the habitate in such a way that an single building should not affect the whole settelement, but its bezzare and uncoventional properties should contribute to the settlement in a beautiful manner and the group of such buildings, should be a nice collective expression on the whole.So i feel that apart from the basic consideration architecture still can be 'simply a personal expression' of the creator, designer, artist, sculputror, architect or a logical human being."
Kunal Dhavale
Is a building a personal expression?
dear kunal
I agree with your talk about being uncoventional but this leads to talk about the critical decisions done by the architect creating the image of our architectural product which depends on his culture and experience..and this makes the matter not insured to get a perfect or prosperous architecture..
Shady Youssef
Is a building a personal expression?
matter of fact,buldings are always for end user and it is always collective effort in producing as well maintening.as an expression architect gets benefit of leadership and creative parenting of the building.so that is prerogetive of being an architect to own the expression for good or bad pressentation.
Dushyant Nathwani
Is a building a personal expression?
It is stubborn problem in fact.
Shady Youssef
Is a building a personal expression?
I think that this talk will lead us to talk about the relation between art and architecture..and dealing with the building as a sculpture...
Shady Youssef
Is a building a personal expression?
if one imagine the building as an object having various layers ,then there is not contradiction between personal expression of building_{dont forget this person is architect}_and functional layer of building or role of building in urban composition,.... .agreeably arrange of these layers is an architectural challenge.
Keykavoos Amini
Is a building a personal expression?
you are right but this point is so difficult focal point in the architectural design proccess..
Shady Youssef
Is a building a personal expression?
Shady,
i am afraid i wouldnt agree that there is a debate on whether architecture is a sculpture.

This argument just denies that architecture is there to fulfill certain goals as the provision for utility, provision of a decent usable environment as well as responding to environmental elements, socio-cultural expression and responsivness, responding to context, efficiency of structure, economic and efficient use of material and technology, sustainable use of natural resources, economics of the building process, aesthetics/harmony/geometry and architecture as a celebration of the collective culture of the whole.

if architects are sincere enough to concentrate on some of these issues and take them as design criteria, they should have enough to worry about not to have time to think about statements.
Karim Elgendy
Is a building a personal expression?
one can pay attention to differences between programming and designing.{process of architecture}
programming as an intelligence activity ,use economical,cultural,..etc studies to knew the problem.these are not answers.are about questions.are about past and present,more pragmatic and canonical...designing as an solve_problem activity use ideals{ideas}to find{to propose}the answers.those are initiative elements of answer,answer is about future,uncertain situation,will create base on our ideas and wishes,not simply repeat or repair of past and present.
{building as a sculpture}is an idea{wish},a probably window to future,and windows no need to judgeement,just, need transition to answers.
Keykavoos Amini
Is a building a personal expression?
dear Keykavoos Amini
thanks alot for your talk...i'm so please to hear your fighting words "not simply repeat or repair of past and present."
Shady Youssef
Is a building a personal expression?
Mr. Amini; don't you think that the idea of building as scultpture would be obtrusive like the "wall", at the end of the day what will be the components of that sculpture??

Karim, your note is valid and true and I totally agree with it.

Best,
Ashraf Salama
Is a building a personal expression?
A building is a personal expression of an architect even he is not aware of it. No two Architects would design exactly the same building each would design his own building. There is no criteria that can tell us how the end product will look like till the architect starts and finishes the building design (expression).
Ahmed Sabry
Is a building a personal expression?
dear ashraf salama
{wall} _for example_is just a {subject},not idea.
subject need to recognition.historically,phisically,..etc
{building as sculpture}_for example_ is an idea ,here we need to recognition concept of building ,concept of sculpture and notice kind of relation between .{created by designer}
that we have not experience about.
sometimes one choose {building as sculpture} as an subject.here he study this subject by observe the relations that historically have created.
regards
Keykavoos Amini
Is a building a personal expression?
Actually, it is not clear what you are arguing for or about. Thanks
Ashraf Salama
Is a building a personal expression?
dear
,i explained that {wall} is not idea or wish,{wall is obtrusive} is not idea or wishes,this is an observe.
{building as sculpture} is idea,wishes.one cant analogize these two different subject.
one can notice to {building IS sculptur} and {building AS sculpture} to have a clear understand of.
thank you
Keykavoos Amini
Is a building a personal expression?
Thank you for explaining the difference between what is obtrusive and what is the idea. This is very useful.
Ashraf Salama
Is a building a personal expression?
the difference between what is observe and what is the idea.it is not about obtrusive.
difference between {is} and {as} on last examples maybe is helpful.
Keykavoos Amini
Is a building a personal expression?
Amini, and Dr. Ashraf,

I am not sure i am following what Amini is saying, i find it very confusing , i do believe as Ahmad Sabry said that no two buildings are the same, however this is not necessarily because of the architect's ego in trying to make statements but because architects give different relative importance to various design criteria not to mention the differences in each project's circumstances (program, plot, etc..)

It take a lot of effort to control the tendancy to put personal statemnts in designs, or as the late Hassan Fathy once put it : in design it is harder to hold back than to let loose.
Karim Elgendy
Is a building a personal expression?
Thanks Karim, yes it is! In this and in other discussions too. I am not really sure, what IS and AS will contribute to any discussion, and I am not sure what WISH will contribute to any intellectual debate. It would appear that there will be a continuous difficulty in electronic mediated discussions
Ashraf Salama
Is a building a personal expression?
kaykavoos, really what u r saying is making no sense. ashraf is right that as and is will lead a discussion nowhere. just quit arguing man... its not helping anyone.
Ali Hassan Salameh
Is a building a personal expression?
once , one wrote:
----
It takes all types of people to make an interesting world. How boring would it be if we were all the same? There would be no challenges, no growth from learning from each other and so on. There may also be no misery and cruelty and I wonder how long mankind might survive if we were like that. Perhaps like the dodo bird, innofensive as it was, was made extinct because it had no defence against change (mankind coming onto its territory).
The important this is not to seek to eliminate each others famiulies, villages, tribes, cities etc, just because of some surface difference in us (such as religion, nationality, social status etc.).

--------

it seems someone here need more sense to continue friendly.you know we see what we want to see.
once again,one wrote{he is very kind,he believe writing,speaking and thinking are art,his name is paul}:

-------
, I am sure that you can read this :


Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
So dnot` it mkae yuo feel bteter now??


I think that this may also apply to other art forms that have been discussed recently.
We see what we want to see or don't want to see.
The human mind is a wonderful thing even if not used properly and for nasty outcomes. One only can look for friends with similar levels of integrity, trust and positive social desires.
---------
Keykavoos Amini
Is a building a personal expression?
kekavoos brother. i suggest you press the RESET button and lets start all over again. im sure u can see that nobody, NOBODY in this discussion is understanding what on earth u r trying to say. neither do i understand what this discussion is all about.

i hope u realise this is an architectural forum, and not a social sciences / philosophy forum. so please make it clear what exactly r u trying to debate. and please explain in PLAIN english sentences without using the various paranthesis and brackets that u insert within sentences.

cheers
Ali Hassan Salameh
Is a building a personal expression?
lets return to our main talk...i think that it is so clear that the building is a personal expression with debatable constrains..
Shady Youssef
Is a building a personal expression?
I consieder the building as a huge number of small details and differentials...faces the architect in a flow of thinking throught a random steps or scientific methedologies leads to a great number of solutions and without any specified factors can match our varied priorities (there is no 1+1=2)...
Shady Youssef
Is a building a personal expression?
ya certainly to me it is his personal expression which a architect expresses in form of a built form...
Subher Kher
Is a building a personal expression?
Dear Shady,
You have a bit architect's dictatorship in you, don't you?
Karim Elgendy
Is a building a personal expression?
dear karim..
do you mean " dictatorship "...In fact i don't know if i have ...
Shady Youssef
Is a building a personal expression?
yes i think so because it tekks what a person yhinks about the building
Abiama Preye
Is a building a personal expression?
have a look at history.this..a bit arch.. dictatorships deal more with concepts like {socio-cultural expression} or {collective expression}.....no?
as i see, this topic has nothing to do with dictatrship .maybe one can focus on { personal expression vs impersonal expression } or concepts like {right_ wrong } {beauty _ ugly } {correct_incorrect}.
Keykavoos Amini
Is a building a personal expression?
DEAR Rhyme Rhyme
maybe,those are different because architect do not like{can not} to repeat himself.i mean ,each building is , unique architectural{aesthetic} experience of architect.
maybe one find{by mistake}that ,this interpretation:{the architect is just a medium of their expression}is a very good/usefull
report when {for example} there is not readiness to accept ,responsibility of architectural{aesthetic} experience.
as i understand you mean ,building is
a {thing} that architect reveal it.?
Keykavoos Amini
Is a building a personal expression?
Architecture is cultural expression, often collectively of the society or even subcultures or classes of a society which produce it. If it is pure personal expression, then is it the expression of the architect or client. And what does architecture express? Is it a medium through which the architect express his feelings? Or simply he or a group of professionals led by him or whoever put together a way of organising and putting together a building. What does it convey beyond what its users can "read"? No doubt, architecture is not just functional, there is more to it. But it is NOT an artistic expression of the architect, though he may try to do it, most often expressing his arrogance.
B. Shashi Bhooshan
Is a building a personal expression?
Lets see what Paul Rudolph..."Architecture is a personal effort,and the fewer people coming between you and your work the better,this keeps some people from participating"
Shady Youssef
Is a building a personal expression?
I agree with Rudolph as much that it could be a personal effort. But the expression is not fully his. With out his knowledge the society and client comes in. He/she is only a medium. This is specifically because the initiation of a building and the decision to build most often lies outside the scope of architects and architecture. Even the decision to give a free hand to the architects is a decision from outside. Even in such a situation, is not architecture governed by many factors such as site, context and contemporary atitudes, technology etc..

Ethically also, I believe that it is not correct on the part of the architect to totally ignore the contexts, not only physical context. Once he designs for the context, he is not making a totally personal expression.
B. Shashi Bhooshan
Is a building a personal expression?
Alsalam ALekom,

well,I do ugree for a while that "a building is a personal expression ",but I think its not so freely ,what I mean is that for sure when an architect designs a building its like he is putting his fingure print on this design the thing that make us identify the work of the famouse architects just by seeing one shot or a facade, you immediatly feel his identity and soul in his work and sure in this way it becomes a personal expression but an expression that must be guided by some rules like the context as I see an architect must respect the context at the end he is designing for the people in this context may be he comes from another different context but he is designing for them, he must relate the building with the context, but he also must stick to his own identity in his architecture work, to be more abviouse its like when you go to foreign country that speaks another language than yours but you know this language , when you need to speak to people there you speak their language but you say your beleifs ,and you cant force the people their to speak your language at their context, Architecture language is a very wide and sensitive one ,so no matter what language you say you have to stick to your beleifs and thoughts and what you do is translating them into this foreign language , just like what we all do all the time writing OUR names in a FOREIGN language.
Thanks and best regards
Aya El-Sebaei
Is a building a personal expression?
That is right at all..but the balance between the architect's personale expression on the building VS the Contextual constrains-Built,cultural,social..- is the problem !
Shady Youssef
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